Thursday, January 6, 2011

Turkish rider sketch - progress

Salve,
New Year has come and this is my first post this 2011.
I welcome all new follwoers to my blog and wish everyone lots of health and prosperity in this brand new year.
Ad rem, in this entry  http://dariocaballeros.blogspot.com/2010/11/turkish-rider-sketch.html I have started a new illustration using my much older drawing showing nondescript Ottoman Turkish lancer.
Well, here you can find a newer version - this time our Turk has a lance, 'Balkan' shield, shishak helmet in more 'Turkish' style, a sabre and a straight sword (carried underneath the right thigh in the old Turkish fashion described in the 'mamluk' - slave-warriors -  training manuals in the XIII century). His shield strap has just broken and he is trying to salvage his shield and control his horse. More work to be done as this is but a tentative sketch...

6 comments:

Rampjaar said...

Very nice!

Dario T. W. said...

Thank you!
by the way - nice Turkish shishak helmet of XVI century http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental/Shishak_Ottoman_Metropolitan.jpg

Samuel said...

Bravo Dario - a fine sketch indeed!

I sure look forward for the final piece. I especially like the fact that you have tried to make it more dramatic via the broken shield-strap.

If I can offer some constructive criticism though I feel the kopia-style lance (hollow lance with a pommel) isn't representative of an actual Anatolian Turkish warrior. I have discussed the issue of Ottoman cavalry pole-arms on this forum to some degree:

http://www.ogniemimieczem.wargamer.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=542

To sum it up:

In the context of 17th century the only Ottoman cavalry troops carrying "kopia-lances" were troopers of Balkan background (Albanians, Serbs etc.) - There are 2 particular sources that explicitly mentions this.. Actually one of them being an early 17th century Polish memoir (huge kudos to Radek Sikora for pointing it out to me). I can forward them to you if you desire.

Happy New Year and best of luck with your paintings :)

Samuel

Dario T. W. said...

Samuel,
I have several images from the period of circa 1580 through perhaps 1657-9 showing 'kopia' (lance) with 'galka.' !But you might be right, they seem to be of some Bosnian or Balkan relation in the later one. I will show them on the blog soon.
Also when hetman Mielecki got himself entangled near Khotin, on the Moldavia side of the river in 1572, one of the Polish hussars, Zygmunt Rozen h. Gryf, was hit by three Turks (guardians of a banner that he just had taken from their 'ensign') with their 'kopia's (Bielski 'Kronika Polska') yet since they did it at trot or at least had not gained enough great speed when executing their attack and he had been armored, they did not do much damage to him and did not even push him of his horse,and he reached his banner with a captured standard at the end. Also during the same Mielecki's campaign in Moldavia Polish hussar or knight Stanislaw Ciolek dueled, with kopia in Slovenian manner, with a Turkish knight and while they went at it with their lances they missed one antoher, but Ciolek turned his horse, on the haunches :) , and drawing his 'koncerz' gravely wounded the Turk in the forehead thus ending the duel. During the same battle two medium calvary banners refused to aid Polish infantry because they had only 'rohatyna' and 'javelins' against Turkish long 'kopia's... etc Bielski is here pages 1210-20 http://books.google.com/books?id=Ae4DAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=mielecki+kronika+bielskiego&source=bl&ots=uhgGI5DPBx&sig=_TgKLfHr-RtIyhjBG--YzLGKgbw&hl=en&ei=h68mTYPAL4T6lwfauJyOAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=mielecki&f=false

Samuel said...

Hello once again Dario

you wrote:
But you might be right, they seem to be of some Bosnian or Balkan relation in the later one.

Well 17th century sources seems to support this assertion. But than again I have found nothing solid for the 16th century (IIRC I don't even think there is any "study" that would point out when was the "Kopia-style" lance developed in the first place.)

Than there is the problem of "Turkishness"... To the best of my knowledge period Christian Europeans used the term rather freely for any Ottoman warriors - irrespective of their original ethno-regional origins.

A nice example of this is found in Pamiętnik wojny chocimskiéj, xiąg troje from Jakub Sobieski who had been an ambasador (?) for the Polish party during the Chocim battle in 1620s

http://books.google.pl/books?id=XiMpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA82&dq=Sobieski+1621&hl=sk&ei=Ws7RTPP9C8aYOrOy9JEM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=true

He had seen the Ottoman army first hand himself and on page 23 he discusses the difference between European and Asian troops - the former being different from "other Turks" - having features of former Christian people etc... So the term "Turk" was very broad and most probably meant Muslim of any kind...

you wrote:
During the same battle two medium calvary banners refused to aid Polish infantry because they had only 'rohatyna' and 'javelins' against Turkish long 'kopia's...

Medium cavalry aka (Polish) Kozak cavalry? The javelins are interesting, I remember reading in Gorski peraps that Lithuanians still carried "Oszczepy" in the 16th century...

you wrote:
Bielski is here pages 1210-20

Intriguing - Many thanks for pointing this out!

Cheers,
Samuel

Dario T. W. said...

Dear Samuel,
I answered , I hope, some of your questions here, along with a nice iconography attached - :)
Bielski, Wapowski, Stryjkowski etc, these XVI century chroniclers offer us some 'great windows' into the world of XV-XVI century Easter and Central Europe.