tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7466337662455429678.post3651045060144477592..comments2024-03-19T08:10:10.856-06:00Comments on Dariusz caballeros: Turkish horses of Cilicia Pedias (Cukurova Plain)Dario T. W.http://www.blogger.com/profile/08130649848483687308noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7466337662455429678.post-34283582494894400892022-05-11T23:48:37.983-06:002022-05-11T23:48:37.983-06:00Armenians are the first people to use and breed ho...Armenians are the first people to use and breed horses. The oldest carriages are Armenian. During Ottoman times Armenians we’re not allowed to breed anymore. The first horse manual is also pre Cilicia Kingdom Armenian. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7466337662455429678.post-11928572646114543772010-05-25T09:10:28.996-06:002010-05-25T09:10:28.996-06:00Jacku,
I do not know that yet - my 'research&#...Jacku,<br />I do not know that yet - my 'research' is not completed. But from different scholarly works I have read it seems that many aspects of the Ottoman Empire are still under-researched and in need of study, particularly the gigantic Ottoman archives in Istanbul that have been very lightly 'touched' by scholars. <br />as per Cilician Armenians as horse breeders it was my guess based on their ancient and medieval history... The Armenians of the later Ottomans (XVII and XVIII centuries) they are a completely different folk, de-militarized it you will.<br />I daresay the Ottoman horse breeding in Anatolia in XV and XVI centuries could have been probably done based on an individual estate owner bases and by the peasant 'serfs' who owed tribute to him, as part of the tribute owed to the Emperor (Sultan), initially quite similar to inherited timariot Byzantine system. I am not sure how Turkoman tribes paid their tribute, i.e., in life stock, money or military service. It should noted that XVI century wars with Safavid Persia and subsequent conquests of eastern Anatolia most likely added more Turkoman and Persian ( heavier )horses to the Turkish stocks... But also the wars in Anatolia caused depression and wide spread unrest (and frequent revolts) in Anatolia amongst the tribute paying land owenrs and peasants and most likely severely disrupted the horse breeding etc. I am reading more on the subject so I shall return to the Ottoman horse and its breeding. In this post I wanted to note the absence of the Arab horse in the context of the XV-XVII century Ottoman military, and reasons for it..<br />There is a curious anecdote from the later times - XIX century - on how good horse breeding grounds were chosen - namely, many pieces of meat would be hung in various places of a valley etc, and the area where there was the least amount of flies on this raw meat was chosen for a new horse breeding farm...Dario T. W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08130649848483687308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7466337662455429678.post-59340207572860195232010-05-25T08:05:22.434-06:002010-05-25T08:05:22.434-06:00Is there any information concerning the structure ...Is there any information concerning the structure of horse breeding under Ottomans? After reading Halil Inalchik I've got the impression, that it should be coducted primarily by a sort of specialized breeders, possibly from nations and families used to it, as Turkmenian nomads settled within the Empire, possible Armenians as you write (albeit how it could be if they remained Christians..? Already in Crusades times Armenians were reknown food soldiers, not cavalryman. Even in Armenia proper, in Karabach region, it was local Muslims who breed their higly vlued mountain breed...) or some others group. This should be structured somehow. In a form of local gildes? Is there any reference to some sort of archives? <br /><br />Sincerely yours,<br /><br />Jacek KobusJacek Kobushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293048708237766971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7466337662455429678.post-73560557773118373512010-05-19T08:14:39.605-06:002010-05-19T08:14:39.605-06:00thanks!
well as per Balkan Deli nothing out of ord...thanks!<br />well as per Balkan Deli nothing out of ordinary - I would say the most interesting part of his article was the section on horses. I have to peruse Zdzislaw Zygulski Jr works - he has written several books dealing with the Ottoman Turkish military - to see if he goes any deeper into this subject, i.e. Delier.Dario T. W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08130649848483687308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7466337662455429678.post-12349860699353734782010-05-19T05:23:01.676-06:002010-05-19T05:23:01.676-06:00Splendid article and intriguing research ! You men...Splendid article and intriguing research ! You mentioned "Ottoman Furusiyya"... does Rogers in his article say something about the infamous Balkan Deli (Zatocnici) cavalry ? ("Ottoman Hussars")<br /><br />Kind Regards,<br />SamuelSamuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07907338416687624841noreply@blogger.com